Thursday, March 3, 2011

What's the deal with Hip-Hop and Rap artists using 80s beats?

The other day in the gym, I heard the familiar beat of Video Killed the Radio Star play over the sound system. Instead of the 1980s song however, the beat accompanied strange new lyrics courtesy of will.i.am and Nicki Minaj. The song is called Check it Out and throughout the entire "song" the beat to Video Killed the Radio Star plays.
Never forget what the Aerosmith/ Run DMC collaboration meant

This continues a trend I've noticed -- and one that I plan on writing about as an official entry here -- as 'original beats' are something Black people do not like. Yes, Black people are gifted at rhythmically utilizing words that, when meshed with synthesizers and bass, induce people to 'act a fool' and 'freak dance'.

Lately though, rap is going soft. No homo soft. With the collapse of the record industry, recording artists are relying on iTunes sales (because only stale old white acts from the 1960s, 70s and 80s draw big concert crowds and gate receipts) to pay the bills. Rappers are bringing back beats from the 1980s and laying down their verbiage to familiar tunes in a bid to play upon not only nostalgia, but white peoples love for the decade of the 80s.

Keeping rap and hip-hop acceptable within the white community is vital to its continued financial success. As long as white girls like to dance to rap, then white guys will tolerate listening to music from rappers and hip-hop artists that constantly denigrate them.

Such classic 1980s beats such as Alphaville's Forever Young have been utilized by a Black "musician/producer" in a bid to stay relevant. Jay-Z and Mr. Hudson used that songs beat in a song entitled Young Forever.

Perhaps it was Puff Daddy, P. Diddy, Diddly P or what Sean Combs is calling himself these days that started this trend. In the 90s, he used the beat to The Police's Every Breath You Take for the song dedicated to the slain rapper, The Notorious BIG. Entitled I'll be Missing You, the song relied on the haunting beat that Sting made famous.

Puff Daddy would use the talents of Jimmy Page from Led Zeppelin for the song Come with Me, which heavily sampled Kashmir. The merits and artistic quality of the song where questioned by actual musicians:
This collaboration was number twenty-seven on VH1's "Least Metal Moments"in a segment subtitled "It's All About the Zeppelin", because many metal fans and musicians didn't like the remake. Nick Menza formerly of Megadeth called the Puff Daddy/Jimmy Page collaboration "a blasphemy".
In 1998, Brett Scallions of the band Fuel (who had also offered a song for the soundtrack to Godzilla) said that the "Kashmir" remake put him off the entire film, saying: "It seems like anyone can take a classic rock song from the '60s, '70s or '80s and rap over the top of it and make a million bucks."
Stuff Black People Don't Like asks this question: How many rap, hip-hop or R&B songs utilize samples/beats from 80s songs? White people love the 80s and smart music producers hoping to keep their record company in business will capitalize on this knowledge.

What other songs from the 1980s have had their beats used in rap or hip-hop songs now? We're trying to compile the ultimate list of Black people incapable of coming up with original beats and relying on popular samples from 80s songs to garner a bunch of iTunes purchases.

Are all rappers going for their Run DMC/ Aerosmith moment?:

The 1986 music video for "Walk This Way" symbolically placed a rock band (assumed to be Aerosmith) and Run-D.M.C. in a musical duel in neighboring studios before Tyler literally breaks through the wall that separates them. The video then segues to the bands' joint performance on stage. The highly popular video was the first rap hybrid video ever played in heavy rotation on MTV and is regarded as a classic of the medium.

The # posts start again next week, but first we need your help to compile this list.



54 comments:

Cry me a river said...

Eminem - Crazy in Love : Crazy on You by Heart 1976
Eminem - Sing For The Moment : Dream On by Aerosmith 1973
SPM - Mexican Radio : Mexican Radio by Wall of Voodoo 1983
Foxy Brown and Jay-Z - I'll be : Another One Bites the Dust by Queen 1980
Jay-z - Takeover : Five to One by The Doors 1968
Fort Minor - S.C.OM : Sweet Child o' Mine by Guns N' Roses 1987

I know the title is "What's the deal with Hip-Hop and Rap artists using 80s beats?" But since Brett Scallions said "It seems like anyone can take a classic rock song from the '60s, '70s or '80s and rap over the top of it and make a million bucks." I included some non 80's songs.

Cry me a river said...

Music is like candy. We should throw all the (w)rappers away.

Anonymous said...

I don't know much about rap so I wouldn't know about the songs they sample. It's interesting you bring up the Walk This Way song. On the Rolling Stones 500 greatest songs of all time list, Walk This Way is the only song to show up twice: Once as an Aerosmith song (336) and the other as a Run DMC song (287).

Anonymous said...

What?.The 80s?.Fuck the 80s and MTV and all that shite.
Its the 70s for me all the way.

Thank you.

Hirsch said...

Here is the worst plagiarizing of an 80s song to make a rap hit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPRGAQgOq4Y

Because nothing says Gangsta like Cindy Lauper

Even before Aerosmith and DMC, there was a rap-rock hybrid. This is Johnny Rotten with Afrikka Bambaata, featuring Rappin' Ronnie Reagan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93HWraYnSFc

The first case of sampling was also one of the first rap songs ever. The group Kraftwerk released "Transeurope Express" and Zulu Nation turned it into this:

First the original:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hitRhTAGXDA

Then the retread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVcx8Jn23xw

Here is Phil Collins whoring himself out for a rap group:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoLB_U0YPOg

To be frank, Led Zeppelin deserves to be plagiarized. They were a great band but most of their hits are really just old Howlin Wolf and Muddy Waters riffs turned up to 11. Google "Led Zeppelin" and "plagiarism" and see what you find.

I've seen tons of bands live and have to say that nothing sucks quite like a rap show. I was comped in Vegas to see Nas and so me and my girl went. Without all the in-studio magic, rappers basically sound like livestock auctioneers. Also, with all their entourage and weed-carriers in the background shouting out the lyrics together, you really can't hear anything. I can't believe Jay-Z played Madison Square, but if a piece of crap like Andrew Dice Clay can do it, anything's possible.

Anonymous said...

"To be frank, Led Zeppelin deserves to be plagiarized."

But to be fair, rappers pay a royalty for copyright permission, so it's not plagiarism.
(I'm not defending rap, I think it sucks, but it's not plagiarism.)

This is one of the absolute worst I've ever heard, Supertramp should be ashamed...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiiU-Fky18s

And Santana should be shot for this abomination...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF2h07OWlEQ

Anonymous said...

I've never heard the Phil Collins mutation before.

I don't really know if these guys do it for the money, or because they're delusional enough to believe it will make them relevant again. My guess is the latter.

Either way, it's F'ing sad.

No Nonsense said...

Lazy, that's what I always think when I hear sampling. Plain laziness!

Anonymous said...

SBPDL here's a little lesson in the "history" of rap/hip hop...it has sampled songs from the past since its beginning. There is nothing knew about this. Clearly the "musical" talents of rappers or "emcees" is very limited or frankly non-existent (this has been known since it's "birth...many black singers and musicians have and still do criticize them for this)Also, in case you haven't noticed, a resurgence in 80's culture PERIOD has emerged for the past five years or more. Clothing, movie remakes you name it all seem to have that 80's "flare" because it seems like the entire entertainment industry is out of ideas. As far as rap goes, it's just one of the crappy genres of "music" like much of pop music today where all you need is a kiddie key board from toys r us, an idea of how to rhyme small words together,and a gimmick ( like Lady Gaga's over the top false weirdness) and voila you've got a hit. I personally can't understand who the hell would pay ANY amount of money to stand at a Jay-Z concert and watch him do what I can do at home myself in front of a mirror with a hair brush and a Dr. Seuss book.(Just wanted to point one more thing out about my personal annoyance with hip hop/rap these days...in the beginning some songs had deep meaning but now you've got idiots singing along to people like Lil Wayne and 50 cent bragging about how much money they have...Wake up a&&holes...They're the millionaires "poppin bottles" in the club, not you.You just keep putting more money in their pockets by buying their crappy music!)

Hirsch said...

Oh, I almost forgot. Here is the worstestest of the worstest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRI8j_T58m0

Anonymous said...

Hirsch, did you know Bernie Taupin wrote those lyrics for Starship? Ugh.

Desiree said...

In the fashion world, there's a little concept called 'inspiration'. It's not plagiarism but something from another designer inspires you to make something of your own, even if it's similar (hence fashion trends). Rap is about the spoken voice; it has nothing to do with the beats.

That's an addition. If your flow is tight, then it doesn't matter about the music. It's the same with singing; a singer should know how to sing live and a capella. Rappers are lyricists first and foremost. If you want musicians, go to Earth, Wind & Fire.

Blacks are very creative people. There is nothing wrong with hearing a beat from a classic rock song (I heard something from Led Zepplin in a movie and I know someone sampled it, maybe Eminem?) and thinking, 'Hey, we can make this hot.' If you think there is something wrong with that, you are thinking a little too hard. I remember watching MTV a couple of years back and Da Brat was talking about a rap-country song with Dolly Parton would be hot. I know there have been several country artists who've worked with rappers.

Nothing is a sacred cow, esp. the 80s, which belongs to everyone. Who the hell cares? If attribution is given, no harm done, and that's just the legal mumbo-jumbo. Many times, I have to be honest, white people can make a great beat but fuck it up with bad singing.


@ Hirsch:

Here is Phil Collins whoring himself out for a rap group:

That 'rap group' is Bone Thugs N Harmony and they are the shit. I wouldn't say Phil Collins was whoring himself out because the BTNH are Grammy winners and were the world's top selling rap group at one time. It's not like a Gucci Mane team up; calm your ass down. These guys started very young when gangsta rap was hot (early 90s) and were hugely successful because of their unique flow.

Their second album 'East 1999 Eternal' is really good. If you want to talk about sampling, they did a whole song about weed (well, there's more than one) 'sung' to the Isleys' 'Choosey Lover':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFmCVQWRReM

Incidentally, Bizzy Bone has a marijuana addiction. He was my favorite of the group.

Desiree said...

What's funny to me is the need for racial hierarchy in this debate. Why must you resort to saying 'rap sucks'? That's not a real critique.

I'm in no way a rap connoisseur because it is not my favorite genre and, as a result, I do not listen to it. And that's he point. If you don't like it, you probably don't listen to it. And if you don't listen to it--the breadth of songs in the genre--I think it's a little unfair to give such a Pulitzer prize winning critique as 'it sucks.'

That's what ignorant people say. I saw a white guy several years ago here in Las Vegas driving around with 'Rap and Hip-Hop sucks' on his car. I bet if you asked him 'why?', he'd give you a sorry ass criticism, like 'it's degrading to women,' something that has nothing to do with the form itself.

Don't be ignorant about your dislikes. I don't bash people's musical tastes because, honestly, who gives a shit? It's their life; I don't like punk because it seems cacophonous but if someone wants to listen to it, go ahead. The only reason conservative yahoos hate rap is because white girls like it, and if white girls like it, then this is closer to white woman/black man relationships, which scares them shitless.

It's the same with the anti-gangsta rap movements from the 1990s. Tipper Gore and her ilk didn't care about how the genre affected black kids--no one gives a flying fig about black kids!--but since white kids liked it, it was a threat. Whites babysit their kids with the media and white kids I've known are very impressionable, so I guess Eminem was really scary!

Anonymous said...

Dezi, we're trying to compile a list of songs.

If you have nothing to offer, please confine your boring, irrelevant diatribes to your own blog.

Anonymous said...

it seems like that new FLO-Rida beat uses the ferris bueller 'bom bom' song in the beginning but doesn't rely overly heavily on it.

The Black Eye peas also steal older beats and samples often..

have you heard the slash/fergie remake of paradise city? wow

Anonymous said...

This kind of artistic theft is just a variation on the Black Inventions Myths theme.

Here's an example of authentic black music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYW6C44zo24

and a bonus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8bxEaIZAx0

Hirsch said...

I saw an interview on VHI with a rap artist (and I use the term "artist" the way Subway insists its employees call themselves "sandwich artists) wherein he said that in the early 80s people called rap a fad, saying that it would be dead in a few years. Yet here we were in the 2000s and it was still going strong, proof that it was here to stay.

He genuinely didn't understand that twenty years was virtually nothing. In 300 years, which do you think will still be around: something like Barber's "Agnus Dei" or Mahler's "Sir Langsam," or Two Live Crew's "Me So Horny?"

White Guy said...

"Blacks are very creative people."

Really?

So, then, what have blacks contributed to the advancement of human thought, science or knowledge??

Stringing together an incomprehensible howl, laced with obscenity, violence and sexual innuendo, does not establish even the most rudimentary trace of creativity - in form, function or character.

Rap music serves a single purpose: to reveal the Negro soul for all the world to hear.

Desiree said...

@ White Guy

Rap music serves a single purpose: to reveal the Negro soul for all the world to hear.

That is an opinion. And, as such, does not deserve a real response. I will say, though, the same can be said for emo (ie. the revelation of self-loathing caused by not being able to live up to white hype).

Anonymous said...

"in the early 80s people called rap a fad, saying that it would be dead in a few years."

Rap survived by morphing into porn.

If rap had remained "clean", it would have died years ago.

Cry me a river said...

The Real Roxanne - Early Early (La La) : The Ocean by Led Zeppelin 1973
Fort Minor - Dolla : The Ocean by Led Zeppelin 1973
Sir Mix-A-Lot - Iron Man : Iron Man by Black Sabbath 1970
Busta Rhymes - This Means War!! : Iron Man by Black Sabbath 1970
Kanye West - song Hell of a Life : Iron Man by Black Sabbath 1970
Black Eyed Peas - Pump It : Misirlou by Dick Dale 1962
Mariah Carey - Without You : Without You by Badfinger 1970

Anonymous said...

Rap is the musical equivalent of a baby reaching into its diaper and smearing feces on the wall.

Cry me a river said...

SBPDL does it have to be 80's music?

Anonymous said...

"no one gives a flying fig about black kids!"

Desiracist finally said something true!

(I would rather have a flying fig, or a Fig Newton than a black kid, unless I were legally allowed to sell the black kid.)

I think Desiracist meant to say "white people don't give a flying fig about black kids" but the headlines tell the real story: black people don't give a flying fig about them, either, especially the ones who shat them out into the world. That black mothers, babydaddys, boos and "frains ob da fambly" are killing black children in such great numbers is a comforting reality. How can we support this trend?

Anonymous said...

"Rap music serves a single purpose: to reveal the Negro soul for all the world to hear."

Agreed.

The absolute lack of decency or morality, the fixation on sex and violence, the atrocious language...perfectly representative of natural negro behavior.

Anonymous said...

"no one gives a flying fig about black kids!"

In NYC, 50% of all black pregnancies are aborted.

Stuff Black People Don't Like said...

I had just noticed 80s songs, but if you can think of others include them here!

Ugh... don't bring up abortion. Like religion, that is one topic that people take to the extreme.

I'm against abortion, but I'll say this: imagine the financial stress and burdens on local, state and the federal government if it hadn't been legalized.

What would the out-of-wedlock birthrate be for Black people? 80 - 85 percent?

Okay, I know that thought experiment will piss some people off but its an interesting question.

Imagine how far the suburbs would be from major cities if that many more people weren't aborted?

I'd wager gas would be a dollar higher with that much more demand.

Okay, back to rap music.

Desiree said...

He genuinely didn't understand that twenty years was virtually nothing. In 300 years, which do you think will still be around: something like Barber's "Agnus Dei" or Mahler's "Sir Langsam," or Two Live Crew's "Me So Horny?"

Holy mackerel...

Hirsch, your last sentence is one hell of a damned strawman! Of course 2 Live Crew's 'Me so horny' will not stand the test of time. No one is debating that. Who still listens to 2 Live Crew?! People still listen to 2Pac and Biggie. My stepdad still listens to NWA and Run DMC. 2 Live Crew's lyrical content is great, I must say, but in this day and age, it's almost PG.

Luke Campbell is much better promoting adult entertainment and working with 'nasty' R&B groups than he is at rapping:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVRzr3vDczw

You said you didn't even like anyone older than Mahler, which would encompass Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Handel. Yours is just an opinion; most people would think you were insane. You harp on originality and yet you dislike the men with whom your favorite composers were undoubtedly influenced by? That's hypocrisy.

How can you even diss a rap artist (yes, artist) who does not think rap is a fad when the form is so new? I mean, that's one hell of a supposition to make regarding rap's longevity. I think you're wrong; I also think you know your wrong but your dislike of rap impedes clarity.

When Elvis and the Beatles came out, parents went nuts and thought it would be a fad. We're all still honoring these artists decades later. The same will be for rap, sampling or not. Get over it.

Everyone is entitled to give criticism, as the old adage says, but, come on now; that was just ridiculous. It's like saying, "What will we still listen to years from now: John Lennon's 'Imagine' or Color Me Badd's 'I Wanna Sex You Up'?" Not. even. comparable. And the latter was a #2 song; 'Imagine' peaked at #3!

You're a smart guy. You know better than this...

Desiree said...

@ White Guy

Rap music serves a single purpose: to reveal the Negro soul for all the world to hear.

That is an opinion. And, as such, does not deserve a real response. I will say though, the same can be said for emo (ie. self-loathing caused by not being able to live up to white hype).

Anonymous said...

Speaking of nobody giving a flying fig about black kids (especially black kids they themselves have shat into the world):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41874716/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Anonymous said...

Happily my kind of music will never be used in a rap-song..2 examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZzLPf_zyKk or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGZ4K-_nRSs

Cry me a river said...

Dr. Dre - Lyrical Gangbang : When the Levee Breaks by Led Zeppelin 1971
Lil Wayne - On Fire : She's on Fire by Amy Holland 1983
Rick Ross - Push It : Scarface (Push It to the Limit) by Paul Engemann 1983
Charles Hamilton - Gameday : We Will Rock You by Queen 1977
Xzibit - Paparazzi : Pavane by Gabriel Fauré's 1887
Xzibit - The Foundation : The Stranger by Billy Joel 1977
Xzibit - Three Card Molly : The Windmills of Your Mind by Petula Clark 1969

Anonymous said...

"I'm against abortion, but I'll say this: imagine the financial stress and burdens on local, state and the federal government if it hadn't been legalized."

Prior to Roe V Wade, illegitimacy rates were low across the board. Even black illegitimacy was in the low 20's. (Unbelievable, huh.)

Roe V Wade actually served to promote casual sex, because it provided a quick and easy solution to an unwanted pregnancy. The message it sent was "Have more sex, don't worry about the consequences!!".

Anytime you encourage irresponsible people to behave MORE irresponsibly, the results are likely to be catastrophic.

Anonymous said...

"Anytime you encourage irresponsible people to behave MORE irresponsibly, the results are likely to be catastrophic."

Agreed. Illegitimacy rates are also huge nowadays due to the explosion of the sex/love liberal/libertarian culture coupled with the idea that marriage is evil and old-fashioned and that monogamy is bad. The whole idea that these women are a burden on government is laughable too. Many of them are wealthy and they can afford it unlike the middle class and the lower classes. Some of them have families in big corporations or multinationals hello.

Professor Snape said...

This seems like a bit of a moot point - the whole issue of sampling music. I doubt it's a really big issue to most people. If you think about it, hearing a tune you haven't heard since you were a kid behind a popular rap song could be rather nostalgic. Why not look at it from the vantage point of "paying homage" to the originators?

Desiree said:
Rappers are lyricists first and foremost. If you want musicians, go to Earth, Wind & Fire.

I think "Desiree" makes a good point. We are dealing with "lyricists". If they could "flow" while keeping a beat on some drums, I'd be amazed but not everyone is a musician, and I don't think they claim to be in that traditional sense. I'd be more concerned if they were ripping off lyrical content. Then, we'd have a problem. But the music/beats deal? Small potatoes. That's what we have producers for.

If the rappers pay the guys with the original beats, crying over the former's so-called "lack of creativity" is akin to crying over spilled milk. It seems like most in this comment section don't even like rap music. Why care?

It's sort of like what they say about bad TV: "If you have a problem with the show, change the channel."

I will say, however, it seems redundant that Puffy won a Grammy using The Police's "Every Breath You Take"; the latter had won a Grammy years earlier for the song. I don't know; I don't think that should be allowed!

But I can't judge in this regard because I own some Weird Al Yankovic records and I remember being a young man with friends trying to imitate him, of course I wasn't as good. The guy's a genius and he uses the same beats and melodies of the popular songs to which he makes fun. Maybe it is not the "same thing" but it kinda is. I don't think anyone would say Weird Al lack originality, all things considered.

Hirsch said...

@ Desiree

Please quit buzzing around my ear. I don't even want to put in the effort to swat you away. Go drone near "White Guy." I'm sure he has some nice breadcrumbs spilled around his picnic blanket.

Nas's "Thief's Theme" sampled Inna Godda Davida:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4m2HDuoReM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bQZ6l_cq5Y

Anonymous said...

"If you think about it, hearing a tune you haven't heard since you were a kid behind a popular rap song could be rather nostalgic."

You can always count on negroes to offer a lame rationalization for negro behavior.

In 20+ years, not once have I heard a single human being describe feelings of nostalgia brought on by a rap song.

However, if hearing traces of an "oldie" beneath profanity-laced lyrics makes you warm all over, then more power to you.

White Guy said...

"Go drone near "White Guy.""

Careful, Desiree ... I've hung the fly paper.

Anonymous said...

"The guy's a genius and he uses the same beats and melodies of the popular songs to which he makes fun. Maybe it is not the "same thing" but it kinda is."

Weird Al is parody.

Rap is not.

So no, they are not "kinda" the same.

Anonymous said...

"I think "Desiree" makes a good point."

Wow, two negroes who think alike. Shocker.

Professor Snape said...

I'm not black, nor am I afro-multiracial. I'm not a minority. I'd say I was white but I don't know if you'd think a Polish Jew was white. If not, then I guess I am a minority, but I've always bubbled "white" on forms.

I don't mean to play on a stereotype but how many black guys even like Weird Al, or appreciate his genius? Just saying!

Yes, Weird Al is parody, but you are missing the forest for the trees. Think hard. I wouldn't even want to say rappers are using a template, like Weird Al. They just have the music, not the lyrical content of the original. Okay, maybe not the "same" but definitely tangential in spirit and idea. Weird Al and rappers make tons of money when using "samples".

Why the hell care, that's what I'm asking? Most rap stars don't reuse beats for every single song they make. If you don't like it, turn the radio to a different station; switch the channel away from "BET"; have an iPod when you go to 24 Fitness. A reused beat does not take away from the fact that the creativity is still there.

I'm not trying to start a flame war here but how many of you could actually do what they do? Take a beat from any song and rap to it with original lyrical content? It's genius to me; I can't do it. Seriously, if you don't like rap, listen to something else.

What about cover work? The Fugees did a spin on "Killing Me Softly" which was really good but Kelly Osbourne should have been stoned for reworking Madonna's "Papa Don't Preach". Yes, I liked pre-"SEX" book Madonna and I am not ashamed.

I'd much prefer rap lyrics over a classic rock beat than the monstrosities that are remakes of classics. And, no, they are NOT the same. Rappers are lyricists with original content; I'd expect a good "flow", if nothing else, even if they're rapping alongside some Toys R Us keyboard.

Eminem samples a lot, but he's fantastic behind the "mike". No one can take his Grammys. He's not the "catch-all" for rappers but he fits your criteria of a "sampler"...

D J said...

The rappers and hip-hop folks use samples and such created by others because they are lazy, and really don't have any talent. They are a manufactured product with recycled ingredients. Nothing original has been done.

I refer ONLY to the rappers and the hip-hop people. If you think I am referring to BLACKS I am not. I have nothing but the highest respect for the likes of Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Billy Strayhorn, Jimmy Lunceford, Fats Waller, Billie Eckstine, Nat Cole, Johnny Hartman. You know: real orchestrators, composers, arrangers, and singers.

Anonymous said...

"Why the hell care, that's what I'm asking?"

I "care" to the extent that it happens to be the topic of discussion on my favorite daily blog.

What fucking difference does it make to you why I "care"?

"Most rap stars don't reuse beats for every single song they make."

Although I'm not a fan, I do not know of a single rap song that doesn't use elements of pre-existing songs.

"If you don't like it, turn the radio to a different station"

I don't listen to it, so there's no need to change the station. But thanks anyway, for telling me something that even a three-year-old could figure out.

"A reused beat does not take away from the fact that the creativity is still there."

Some people find it artistically "creative" to draw a beard and mustache on the Mona Lisa.
I don't.

"I'm not trying to start a flame war here but how many of you could actually do what they do?"

I can't do what porn stars do either.
And I'm okay with that.

"Seriously, if you don't like rap, listen to something else."

Seriously, could you perhaps post this mindless gem several more times? It really makes you sound clever.

"What about cover work? The Fugees did a spin on "Killing Me Softly" which was really good"

It depends on how you define "good".
Some people think their own farts smell "good".

"Eminem...No one can take his Grammys."

You are the king of profundities.

Desiree said...

@ DJ:

What is your criteria for talent with regard to rappers? They are LYRICISTS, not MUSICIANS! It's like everyone on this thread cannot separate these from each other. Rappers don't profess to be like the black blues and R&B greats. Rapping is poetry, first and foremost. The music is secondary. Many times when you have really good music, the lyrics repeat over and over.

My absolute favorites are Bone Thugs and Eminem. These guys are telling stories and rhyming melodically. Listening to them is like listening to a 'hipper' version of a great audiobook. Profanity laced or not, that's your personal opinion as to whether it chafes your ass; freestyling will always blow my mind. And I am not even a big rap fan at all. I, too, prefer singers and traditional musicians.

Maybe your notion of talent is regarding making actual music, but that is a completely different thing than what rap is even about. You can't compare apples to oranges.

It just seems like people on here hate rap because it's black, not for any valid reason that has to do with the form. And it is pathetic, and sad, that you cannot move beyond your own irrational bigotry to use just a scintilla of objectivity when evaluating this genre of music.

And this isn't even about the genre; SBPDL's post is about sampling which is no big deal anyway.

You don't have to 'like' rap; no one is saying that. No one even gives a shit. But be fair, Jesus Christ. We get it; you don't like black people. And? White people rap, too.

Desiree said...

@ Hirsch:

Please quit buzzing around my ear. I don't even want to put in the effort to swat you away. Go drone near "White Guy." I'm sure he has some nice breadcrumbs spilled around his picnic blanket.

You know, I am not at all surprised that you could not come back with a cogent argument just attempting to defend that pathetic strawman.

Because you know you were absolutely, positively, inalienably wrong with that bullshit you typed. It's almost like the idea of 'picking on someone your own size'. You cannot compare one-hit wonders to composers, just like I will not compare an 80s Whitney Houston to a circa 'Charmbracelet' Mariah Carey. It's pretty obvious, Hirsch, who's going to win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI3YrAv0C-I&feature=relmfu

Follow this advice in the future so you won't be caught in those tragic little strawmans that are the hallmark of faulty logic and poor thinking skills: when creating a comparison to prove a point, it is of utmost importance that you compare like things.

If you don't want someone to challenge you, babes, don't comment. Especially on a musical form to which your own hatred of black males prevents you from appreciating it. You don't see me spouting off about rock music, saying 'it sucks'. It's loud, but that's the extent of my critique. I do like 'Freak On A Leash' and 'My Name is Mud', though, and I was into Linkin Park in junior high, when I didn't know who the hell I was.

By the way, you are a music snob, and it's an ugly trait! Remember this, as it should guide all of your interactions for the rest of your days: it is okay to be wrong.

From some of the stuff you've said on this site--when SBPDL actually publishes a comment towards you from me--you've been wrong a lot, and I have dutifully proved this much to your chagrin.

I wonder if SBPDL would even publish this one! It took me 2 tries to get him to publish that innocuous one to which you responded!

Another piece of advice: stop with the ad hominem attacks against me. I am no more stupid than Kim Kardashian is in possession of a flat ass. Just work on your arguments, man, okay? Sheesh!



@ White Guy:

Careful, Desiree ... I've hung the fly paper.

LOL. Please. No one on this site is even a match because emotion dictates your belief, not rational thought. Sorry.

Anonymous said...

"That is an opinion. And, as such, does not deserve a real response. "

Then please STFU. No one cares what you have to say. You are mucking up the site with your long useless rants.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Mister's broken wings was (ab)used both by Tupac in 'until the end of time' and Joe Budden in a freestyle which was released although I'm not sure of the title.

Islands in the Stream - Kenny Rogers & Dolly Parton used for Ghetto Supastar - Pras, ODB, Mya

Break My Stride - Matthew Wilder used for Can't Nobody Hold Me Down - Puff daddy/P diddy..whatever his name is

The Way It Is - Bruce Hornsby & The Range used by Changes - Tupac

She Blinded Me With Science - Thomas Dolby used by Got It Twisted - Mobb Deep

D J said...

"You-don't-like-black-people (thump), You-don't-like-black-people (thump), You-don't-like-black-people (thump), You-don't-like-black-people (thump), You-don't-like-black-people (thump)..."

There is an easy fix for that:

1) remove the CD, place under running warm water.
2) apply a dot or two of Ivory liquid and work to a lather on the CD.
3) rinse thoroughly.
5) dry with radial wipes, from hole to edge, NEVER around and around.
6) place back in player.
7) press PLAY.

The "You-don't-like-black-people" phrase will only come out once, then the CD will go on with how I whup my slaves every morning before work, and run down black children at the school crossing. Or something.

Hirsch said...

@ Desiree,

I have to confess that like most of the people on here, I've finally figured to skip over any entry that begins: "Desiree says." I would frankly rather read essays written by developmentally challenged children on their recent trip to the planetarium.

Scott Is NOT A Professional said...

The sad thing about the state of today's black music is that, once upon a time, blacks were genuine innovators -- i.e. the blues that inspired generations of classic rockers, the jazz that influenced legions of artists to try their hand at improvisation and harmonic sophistication, etc.

Soul music of the classic ('60s-'70s) era had some genuine humanity to it. Tales of loss, of woe, of vulnerability, of genuine longing for a lover who couldn't be had, a lover lost. Marvin Gaye's best album remains "Here, My Dear" (1978) -- a spiteful, ruminative work born of his messy divorce from Anna Gordy Gaye. As legend has it, his wife demanded a portion of proceeds from his next album as part of their divorce settlement (or something like that). So he responded with a warts-and-all dissection of their falling apart set to music. And that, of course, makes the bitter sarcasm behind the album's title that much clearer - awesome stuff.

Rap changed all that, however. The "gangsta" element of rap took over and hip-hop became the new minstrel show of our time. No more vulnerability, no more humanity. Now the blaxploitation myth of the infallible, take-no-shit, pimpin'-ass Super Negro has taken over popular culture - and whatever nuance or subtlety or shading once existed in black music has fallen far out of fashion.

Blacks are far too willing to don that burnt cork and be the monkeys shuffling and dancing across the stage of our modern American life. Why be a flawed human being when you can be the fantasy of every racist in the land?

No one needs to call black people niggers anymore. They're far too willing to stamp the term across their own foreheads.

Scott Is NOT A Professional said...

@ Desiree -

"I do like 'Freak On A Leash' and 'My Name is Mud', though, and I was into Linkin Park in junior high, when I didn't know who the hell I was."

The Primus track notwithstanding, you know absolutely nothing about rock -- REAL rock, that is.

Desiree said...

@ Scott:

The Primus track notwithstanding, you know absolutely nothing about rock -- REAL rock, that is.

Hey, I was in junior high--seventh grade to be exact, 12 to 13--and very sad and depressed. Give me a break! I knew nothing about most music, and, to this day, I am not a big music person.

But I know a bunch of 'information' about it, even if I don't listen to a wide array of the stuff. I like R&B, although I will always love gangsta rap. But I don't listen to 'real' rock, yes. You are right.

I suggest Bone Thugs, if you're inclined to try.

'Freak On A Leash' is a good song; metal--the kind people associate with horror flicks and Satan worship--will always intrigue me more than the other stuff. From the way I dress, many people think I listen to metal, but I like love songs; black music. And Linkin Park may be a little weak but I liked their aesthetic--the rap/rock mixture. I loved 'Crawling' and I knew all the words to 'In the End'.

What is that stuff? Emo?

Whatever.

Hey, you're "Booker T" is showing, Scott... Reel him in.

Scott Is NOT A Professional said...

@ Desiree -

'Freak On A Leash' is a good song; metal--the kind people associate with horror flicks and Satan worship--will always intrigue me more than the other stuff.

Yes, but Korn has nothing to do with metal. Or rather, I should say: there's the metal that actual metalheads think of as metal... and then, there's stuff like Korn for the people who'd probably faint at prolonged exposure to the real stuff.

Hey, you're "Booker T" is showing, Scott... Reel him in.

A reference to Booker T. Washington, I presume. And how exactly does this apply to me?

Anonymous said...

You guys are all ridiculous.. everything tupac and biggie rap over are sampled. "Juicy" by biggie, was sampled from mtume juicyfruit (the epitome of 80s cheese rnb) Sampling is an artform and i doubt any of you could recreate the things you hear. J dilla (RIP) remade the most obscure samples into masterpieces that were literally unrecognizable from the original sample. If sampling was so easy, why arent you guys all famous producers? and why arent you all famous rappers if anyone can do it? because you cant. Sampling is even taught in some reputable colleges now. Rap and rock does suck when combined though.. but really go after dubstep, hip hop has more than paid its dues in the music world by now. if all you are judging hip hop by is the stuff on the radio then you dont really have a say in wether hip hop is good or not.